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Personal Beliefs
08-03-2013, 04:53 AM
Post: #1
Personal Beliefs
There aren't many things that irk me to a point of irritation in this world.

However, one thing that really upsets me is when people question my intelligence because of my personal belief in a God.

I don't believe a lot of the nonsense you hear on TV. My personal relationship, is my personal relationship. I am upset that people are judging me based on information they don't have about myself.

I was just wondering if anyone else had this pet peeve. There is no doubt in my mind that I should not be here, so my belief in a God a reason for still being alive helps me. (2 years ago, I completely totaled my Toyota Rav 4, it was decimated. I got out of the accident with mild back aggravation and a severely bruised knee. Considering the scale of my accident that is pretty lucky. Also, my airbag did not deploy either. It was probably because the impact did not happen where I had an airbag installed, I believe that is the case) I know a lot of other people who have similar situations to mine, so I can respect their decision.

My question to everyone is, do you have a pet peeve like mine. Or do you have the same attitude I have towards generalization that I mentioned. (It's quite early for me, so this might be a bit ramble-y)
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08-03-2013, 06:47 AM
Post: #2
RE: Personal Beliefs
I grew up believing in God. It was what I was brought into. Nowadays I don't know if I believe or not. Sometimes I have moments like yours where it seems like God is watching over me (not as drastic though). This topic is questionable for me to say the least. I do believe in a higher power whether it be God or something else. I don't think the universe could just appear out of nowhere.

Questioning someone's intelligence over their religion isn't cool though. I might not agree with someone but that doesn't make them wrong. You can be religious and smart. Although you can be religious and dumb as well so take that with a grain of salt.

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08-03-2013, 10:06 AM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2013 07:24 PM by ZombieOnTheBrain.)
Post: #3
RE: Personal Beliefs
As an atheist, I haven't viewed religious people as dumb. I've met religious people who I considered quite intelligent.

But, I will not hesitate to consider someone ignorant if they allow religion to impede on science. When we live in a world full of vaccines, dog breeding, and pesticide-resistant bugs, there is no good reason to deny evolution, especially in favor of creationism. Just as I won't accept that it is reasonable to ban same-sex marriage simply because 'It is against god's will'. If someone tries to support an argument through a god, then they are entering my pet peeve.

Of course, there are religious people who support evolution and same-sex marriage. And I have had deep, meaningful conversations with people who don't accept evolution of same-sex marriage. And there are ignorant atheist as well, such as the ones who lack tact and insist that those who follow a religion are stupid.
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08-03-2013, 07:16 PM
Post: #4
RE: Personal Beliefs
I completely understand where you are coming from. Anyone that uses religion to impede on Democracy or any forms of science are ignorant to other people and their lives.

You may have a belief, but you shouldn't force other people to live by your standards.

And I think that is the core of my peeve. Other people at times feel like they can dictate your life with their views.

That is one reason why I deplore people who are against same-sex marriage and use religion as a reason why, which is where most arguments stem. That would only fly in a theocracy.
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08-03-2013, 10:57 PM
Post: #5
RE: Personal Beliefs
For me, I don't not believe in god. It's just that I don't really want to know per se. When I say that I don't mean it because of fear, but because I don't like getting caught up in "Atheist vs. Christian" arguments. Whenever I get dragged into one of those, I simply say "I don't care" and then walk away. Or stop paying them any attention.

IMO I don't need a reason why the world was made. I'm here now, I'm living my life, and the past is behind you so you shouldn't linger on it. What happens, happens. I don't need some belief of a higher being to get on with my life. However, I do still wonder about these things since that's what humans do... Wonder.

People can think whatever they like, as long as they don't shove their ideals down my throat.

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08-04-2013, 12:32 AM
Post: #6
RE: Personal Beliefs
Pet peeve:Ignorant atheists who mock and ridicule religious people on their beliefs. Like what the fuck? Most of these guys are trying to promote happiness, goodwill, and hope while these people are just making fun of how stupid their stories are. I'm not just centering this around atheists though, I'm just sick of how some people are so narrow-minded to which they're not able to accept or even consider any different beliefs other than their own. How great would the world be if nobody thought their way was better and instead, cooperated?

As an atheist, I personally believe that there isn't a better place we would go to when we die and that there isn't a God who created the whole universe.
Yet, I'm still willing to study different religions and see life at their standpoint.

Another pet peeve is the Westboro Baptist Church. I know I'm supposed to respect other people's opinions and beliefs.... but making your kids promote hate? I'm at a loss of words.
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08-04-2013, 12:57 AM
Post: #7
RE: Personal Beliefs
This topic never gets old, does it? Well, I do have few things to say.

1. Some people (even atheists) need to realize that atheists aren't scientists. Those are very different. "I'm an atheist" does not mean I have a PhD at evolutionary biology. Some atheists would simply watch a documentary or two about black holes and shit and start acting all knowledgeable in the internet (in the religious discussions), using scary terms like "Special Theory of Relativity", or "Universal Law of Gravitation" randomly. As pretty much everyone else had mentioned already, it does piss me off when believing in a God automatically means you're dumb to an atheist. That's anything but true (I've got examples).

2. It's okay to have a personal belief in a higher power. But it really irritates me when people try to force that in our education (the science education, at least). I've seen countless debates on "if creationism should be taught at school or not". And many of the replies were "Of course! We shouldn't force any belief upon anyone. We should teach both alternatives (evolution and creationism) and let the children decide what they want to believe in."

Problem is, that's not how it works. First of all, evolution is not a "belief", just like how gravity isn't either. Secondly, we don't say "Listen children! The Earth could be flat and being carried by a giant turtle who's standing on a giant elephant, or it could be round. Now you decide what you want to believe in." We don't do that kind of stuff. We tell them exactly what it is. Teaching creationism to children in a science class, as Bill Nye said, is child abuse.

3. Another thing that irritates me is how the religious people only look at the "good stuff" and completely ignore the "bad stuff" about their religions. Suppose, one of the verses of your sacred book could somehow, by twisting its meaning a lot, be translated to, "Water is made out of hydrogen and oxygen". Bam. Your religion must be legit, right? I mean, how else did they know this thousands of years ago? But the problem occurs when you completely ignore the verse right after that which says something ridiculous like .... like .... I don't even know. Make something up. Same thing could be said for the "peaceful" verses and the verses that are a little more aggressive.

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08-04-2013, 01:25 AM
Post: #8
RE: Personal Beliefs
Yours are yours and mine are mine, and as long is we're not hurting each other with them everything's fine.

^ My entire thought on the issue, as told in rhyme.

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08-04-2013, 09:38 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2013 09:39 AM by LightningCrabz.)
Post: #9
RE: Personal Beliefs

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08-04-2013, 11:16 AM (This post was last modified: 08-17-2013 10:50 AM by Kat.)
Post: #10
RE: Personal Beliefs
Stephan is really great with words, and making things very concise and to the point. And I completely agree with all of you. I think as long as we respect each other and our opinions we'll be good.

And by opinions, I mean more or less stuff that isn't grounded in fact (regarding evolution).

Here is a video of Hank Green, because it's related to the topic of irrefutable facts and opinions.

He says some stuff better than I could.

Edit: I'm not sure how just to post the link instead of the link and the preview, if I could have some help with that, I would appreciate it.

Edit 2: I will have to disagree with Hank about science just finding the truth and it ending there. We need to question everything we know, so that we can move forward. I don't think we'll ever figure out everything there is to know about the world. It is constantly changing, so we need to challenge everything we think we know. So it isn't really about figuring it all out, but learning what we can and then expanding on what we know.

Edit 3: I know evolution is fact. I was more or less talking about it not becoming a law. I fear it may stay in theory, because I don't know if at this point in time if there is enough empirical evidence for a law. I misspoke and I apologize for that.
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08-04-2013, 01:24 PM
Post: #11
RE: Personal Beliefs
Woah, halfway through Hank Green's video, I realized that he said almost the exact same thing as I did. Weird.

But there was something I didn't agree with myself, and that was that science is about not debating. Science is constantly refreshing itself by constantly debating, and challenging, previous discoveries. The reason why gravity and evolution are called theories and not facts is because there is the belief that someone will come along and make a better theory to explain the occurrence. If that sounds silly to you, then you should know that a scientist improved the theory of gravity several decades ago. He was a German Physicist, Albert Einstein.

And debating is completely healthy, if done correctly. Such on the topic of religion. As much as I'm willing to enter that kind of debate, I wouldn't bring it up if the person isn't asking for it. If they're keeping it to themselves and they are very polite, then it would be ill-mannered of me to challenge their notion.

But if there is someone who is telling me that there is a void in my life and that I can 'fill it' and 'avoid burning in hell' then I'm perfectly willing to provide my counter arguments.
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08-04-2013, 06:04 PM
Post: #12
RE: Personal Beliefs
(08-04-2013 11:16 AM)Kat Wrote:  And by opinions, I mean more or less stuff that isn't grounded in fact (regarding evolution).

Evolution is a scientific theory, which means it an explanation with evidence that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation and thoroughly peer-reviewed. Evolution is a fact. Dealwithit.
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08-04-2013, 08:34 PM
Post: #13
RE: Personal Beliefs
I don't think they were saying it isn't a fact, but the way the sentence was written makes it hard to tell. You may want to clarify, Kat.

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08-04-2013, 09:07 PM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2013 09:17 PM by concrete Building.)
Post: #14
RE: Personal Beliefs
To start off, I'm agnostic. I couldn't tell you either way if there is a god or isn't. But what's clear to me is that I certainly don't believe in the Judeo-Christian god. If there is a god or multiple thereof, it must be behind all the laws of science we know and don't. My guess is that if there is, that god is working at a subatomic level pulling all the strings of the different energies that make up all eleven universes. So if someone believes in a god, I won't judge them. Same if someone doesn't.

As for Westboro Baptist Church, I don't think they're hateful. As someone who's LGBT, that could be something shocking to hear from. But here's their mentality:

Jesus said to warn people of the 2nd coming. That is their basic mission. They are people who care about the rest of the world and want to warn people of that.

What IS wrong with the WBC is that they've taken a single bible verse and a story and vastly misinterpret it. Because of that, they've got the signs that they do.

Although I have seen bits that have suggested that they'll picket for the sake of picketing and will find any excuse to...

ALSO, wouldn't this be something for the Religion thread? Not trying to backseat mod here, but wouldn't it be better off there?

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08-04-2013, 09:26 PM
Post: #15
RE: Personal Beliefs
(08-04-2013 09:07 PM)concrete Building Wrote:  Jesus said to warn people of the 2nd coming. That is their basic mission. They are people who care about the rest of the world and want to warn people of that.

I'd accept that if it weren't clear that at the very least the leaders are seeking to profit off of provoking people to violence and then suing, leading me to believe they don't actually believe a thing they're supposedly teaching.

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08-04-2013, 10:31 PM
Post: #16
RE: Personal Beliefs
(08-04-2013 09:07 PM)concrete Building Wrote:  Jesus said to warn people of the 2nd coming.

No he didn't. The closest thing to "warning people of the second coming" was Paul describing how the second coming would occur when various priests asked him about it.

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08-05-2013, 08:33 AM
Post: #17
RE: Personal Beliefs
The thing wrong with the Westboro Baptist Church is that these are hateful, ignorant, power-seeking people who go under the guise of a religion.

These people brainwash their kids. The children are raised to be closed-minded bigots who feel that they are entitled to hurt other people's feelings simply because they are different. If someone even questions 'the teachings' then they can expect to be disowned. That's not from the religion. That's from the people.

We shouldn't say that they act that way because of their religion because that would be giving them security that should not have, and security we don't have to give them. Blame the people running the show. They know that they can do this and claim that it is for their religion, and they know that because other people are still polite and know tact that they wouldn't blame the people but the religion. That is their get-out-of-jail-free card.

Concrete Building, it is really strong of you to look at it from their point of view and give them the benefit of the doubt, and I respect you for that. But I see this whole operation as something some corrupt, power-hungry asshole started and it grew into this congregation where the brainwashed took control and truly believe this. It's a vicious cycle that can only be stopped when the children are shown other ways of life early on.
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08-05-2013, 07:37 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2013 09:36 PM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #18
RE: Personal Beliefs
You fuckers had this conversation the moment I left my house on purpose. Don't lie to me.

Here's the deal: Opinions do matter. You do not live in a bubble. You live on a relatively small planet with billions of other people. Trillions of other life forms. Your opinions, moderate or otherwise, do matter. Period. End of story. This is a fact. "Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" is the intellectually lazy way out of serious discussion. And it can lead to more conflict than the one you are avoiding.

If I have the opinion that poor people choose to be poor, that opinion matters. Not only will I be unlikely to support those who need it, I'm also likely to influence others with my opinions. I will create the appearance that such an opinion is normal. "You leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" only works if we're talking about from a government's perspective, and even then it is situational. If your opinion is "I don't believe taxes are an effective form of governing," the government has every right to tell you to shove it and force you to pay.

Likewise, your opinion about a god matters. Even if you are a "moderate" who would not hurt a fly, by professing belief in a god, you are having an effect on others. You reassure the extremists that their beliefs, which you may denounce and call "wacky" or "hateful" or "ignorant", are at least partially correct. Here's another fact for you: We are a social species. We abide by the rules of peer pressure and hiveminds. If others have a certain opinion, that makes us more likely to hold it. Fact.

So your opinion matters. This is established. That does not mean that all opinions are harmful. It means that you are responsible for your own opinions and can be held accountable for them. When they're not serious ("I don't like ketchup"), then it'd be unreasonable to criticize and be mocked. If it IS serious ("black people should be slaves"), then it is more than 100% reasonable to criticize and be mocked. Likewise, opinions in the middle hold various different levels of responsibility and accountability.

Now let's examine the religion belief. What are the consequences? Well, we live in a world where the vast majority of people believe in one religion or another. What is a religion but a collection of superstitious beliefs? The reason, however, that these are accepted so much, and indeed, given a word ("religion"), is because of how prevalent they are.

Fact: Professing a religion makes others feel more comfortable for believing in their religion.

So even if you are a moderate Christian who is down with the gays or a Muslim who is respectful of women, you are still contributing to a societal mindset that allows the "extremists" to be so extreme. Think about it, if all of the "moderates" in the world were not religious, you'd find a majority of the "extreme" rethinking their positions, and perhaps taking a more "moderate" tone. In my personal opinion, professing any completely unfounded opinion is extreme already. You moderates allow these extremists to reach whole new levels.

So yes, you better have evidence and reason for your beliefs. You are accountable. Congratulations for not being a psychopath, but that doesn't make the world flat or the Earth the center of the universe or our species 4000 years old.

So what is your evidence or logic? I'm completely justified in asking. And if that makes you feel bad, maybe it's your beliefs that are the problem. Most religious people will go through 90% of their life as perfectly rational, skeptical people who use the scientific method to determine what reality is and how to interact with it. But you've been trained, often from an early age, to flip all of these critical thinking skills off like a lightswitch when it comes to certain topics. Religion is the worst offender of this.

When you read these words I'm typing, how are you sure that they exist? We know for a fact that the mind can hallucinate even under normal conditions. How do you know that these words are real and that they are a couple feet in front of your face? Well, by using the scientific method throughout a lifetime, you've learned that you can place a reasonable amount of trust in your senses, but you also know to look for signs that you're being tricked. Since those flags are not going off right now, you can reasonably safely conclude that these words are real. When you wake up in the morning, you likely assume that the floor underneath your bed is not covered with lava. Because you have tested this throughout your lifetime and concluded that you do not risk a severe burn by lava if you are to touch the floor with your feet.

Almost every single thing you do when you interact with something involves the scientific method. Determining what is true. What is real. How to interact with your surroundings. Why, when this is a proven method that works with almost everything you do would you suddenly turn this amazing bit of brain capability off when you think about religion? Faith is the enemy of knowledge.

You better have a damn good reason to believe in a god. You better have concrete proof and evidence and logic to back it up, just like you would if I asked you to prove that you have a foot.

The misnomer that most atheists think that believers are unintelligent or stupid is just that: a misnomer. Yes, atheists tend to talk down to others on this subject. Why? Because you're telling us that there is a sky daddy and you are so indoctrinated that you cannot see the absurdity of it. How would you like to be criticized if you had a friend that devoted 10 hours a week to laying up against a wall and drooling because a chair "told them to"? You'd speak down to them too and try to get them to snap out of it.

I'm not saying no one is calling you stupid. There are idiots out there who approach it that way. But most atheists are not. Don't paint them all with a brush that's just inaccurate. You do not understand the perspective of atheists and you cannot understand their mindset. And oddly enough, most atheists are ex-theists and can understand your mindset. They often are sympathizing with you. They just want you to wake up and smell the coffee.

But don't give me any of this "tolerance and leave me alone" bullshit. There's a time and a place for that, and religion is not it.

(08-05-2013 08:33 AM)ZombieOnTheBrain Wrote:  The thing wrong with the Westboro Baptist Church is that these are hateful, ignorant, power-seeking people who go under the guise of a religion.

These people brainwash their kids. The children are raised to be closed-minded bigots who feel that they are entitled to hurt other people's feelings simply because they are different. If someone even questions 'the teachings' then they can expect to be disowned. That's not from the religion. That's from the people.

We shouldn't say that they act that way because of their religion because that would be giving them security that should not have, and security we don't have to give them. Blame the people running the show. They know that they can do this and claim that it is for their religion, and they know that because other people are still polite and know tact that they wouldn't blame the people but the religion. That is their get-out-of-jail-free card.

Concrete Building, it is really strong of you to look at it from their point of view and give them the benefit of the doubt, and I respect you for that. But I see this whole operation as something some corrupt, power-hungry asshole started and it grew into this congregation where the brainwashed took control and truly believe this. It's a vicious cycle that can only be stopped when the children are shown other ways of life early on.

The Westboro Baptist Church does nothing different than any other church, except for the selection of passages from the Bible that they accept vs the ones they ignore. Every denomination picks and chooses. They have to. The Bible is so self-contradictory it's not funny.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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08-05-2013, 09:32 PM
Post: #19
RE: Personal Beliefs
I like pointing out the flaws in religious teachings as much as the next atheist, but in today's age it isn't appropriate to do so if the person isn't asking for it.

Yes, there is no proof for god, but there is proof that people find comfort in religion. In the elderly population, those who are more comfortable to the knowledge that they will die are those of religion following. And that comfort can improve their health. In fact, a lot of people find comfort in religion, which can be psychologically good. I don't want to argue with a person who doesn't hurt people with their religion, it just doesn't seem worth it.

People respond negatively to opposition when it seems like they are only interested in getting them to change sides. I've seen religious people being criticized by a group of people because they were saying that everyone would go to hell if they didn't follow their religion's teachings. Needless to say, they never convince anyone.

When people are questioning their religion or using it as a tool to harm, then it is time to provide arguments. But when someone talks about going to church, it's best to grin and bear it because they're expected to respect your wishes if you talk about not going to church.
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08-05-2013, 09:44 PM
Post: #20
RE: Personal Beliefs
(08-05-2013 09:32 PM)ZombieOnTheBrain Wrote:  I like pointing out the flaws in religious teachings as much as the next atheist, but in today's age it isn't appropriate to do so if the person isn't asking for it.

It's not a matter of liking it. It's the right thing to do. Religion is extremely harmful, even if you're a "moderate".

And I just gave a massive wall of text as to why it IS appropriate. Your opinions matter. They have impact on others. You need a damn good reason to hold an opinion that effects people on a daily basis like this, often in extreme ways.

(08-05-2013 09:32 PM)ZombieOnTheBrain Wrote:  Yes, there is no proof for god, but there is proof that people find comfort in religion. In the elderly population, those who are more comfortable to the knowledge that they will die are those of religion following. And that comfort can improve their health. In fact, a lot of people find comfort in religion, which can be psychologically good. I don't want to argue with a person who doesn't hurt people with their religion, it just doesn't seem worth it.

What? You're kidding. Most atheists I've heard of are way more comfortable with death because they've accepted it and had time to come to terms with it, instead of going into denial for a lifetime that their life will indeed end and they will cease to exist.

There are plenty of reasons why "It's comforting!" isn't a proper justification. I'm not gonna type out a whole essay on the matter because others have already done so. Here's an example: http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_...mfort.html

I recommend looking up more. There are tooooooons of reasons why that's not good enough.

(08-05-2013 09:32 PM)ZombieOnTheBrain Wrote:  People respond negatively to opposition when it seems like they are only interested in getting them to change sides. I've seen religious people being criticized by a group of people because they were saying that everyone would go to hell if they didn't follow their religion's teachings. Needless to say, they never convince anyone.

When people are questioning their religion or using it as a tool to harm, then it is time to provide arguments. But when someone talks about going to church, it's best to grin and bear it because they're expected to respect your wishes if you talk about not going to church.

Not doing anything is why religion has lasted so long. Because people had doubts and were too timid and afraid to speak out and say something. You have almost an entire species acting like a cult and no one's been speaking out in volume until recently. People need to know that their doubts are not Satan. Their doubts are natural and justified. It's the reasonable portion of their brain pointing out their own cognitive dissonance. Even the most "faithful" get these twinges, because most religious people are not stupid and realize how absurd it is.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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