New and Noteworthy
Recent Videos News


Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
US Health Care
03-05-2015, 12:46 AM
Post: #1
US Health Care
As a Canadian, I can't comprehend the US's form of health care whatsoever, nor the stances of against public health care reform. Just as a citizen, I don't think I'd feel bad about a portion of my paycheck going to support either a future sickness I may contract or helping pay for someone else's surgery.

I realize public health care has major flaws in its own right, and Michael Moore films don't give a fair portrayal of how the US system actually works, but I still don't understand the refutations against public health. Do people just not get sick here?

I'm just curious about opinions on this matter, how people feel about private vs. public systems, etc.

Heart ~ I'LL PLAY MYSELF OUT ~ Heart
[Image: Xul_Se.gif]

Editor, Writer, VA
Darker than Black - Hyperabridged
My VA Channel (Sokka Shorts/RANGER DOOWOP)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-05-2015, 08:24 AM
Post: #2
RE: US Health Care
Opponents tend to agree that a problem still exists, and sometimes agree on what the problem is. Their proposed solution is what differs. That not being replacing the monster of private healthcare with the greater leviathan of public government.

I've rarely had a bad experience with any of my Doctors or nurses; this past February saw me go to a doc or specialist at least four times for check-ups and examinations. But I regulate my own health well enough and I don't like relying on anecdotes for something as universally applicable as one's well-being.

Gonna leave this here and pick up the conversation later. I'm late for work.




You are what you put your time into.

My Series: https://www.youtube.com/user/Abridgelion

Skype: anax.of.rhodes
E-mail: anaxofrhodes@gmail.com (or Abridgelion@gmail.com )
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/AnaxofRhodes/

Spoiler(Show)
[Image: 252ce5d1fb2620570990fc35cff72412.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-05-2015, 09:24 AM
Post: #3
RE: US Health Care
Fantastic video.

This is exactly what I think of when I think of American care because it's almost a perversion of private care. The one time I ever agreed with Bill O'Reilly on anything was when he claimed that privatized care wasn't private enough to work effectively. Some of the things the video mentioned were a little overtly libertarian for my liking, but they are certainly logical. Very cool.

Heart ~ I'LL PLAY MYSELF OUT ~ Heart
[Image: Xul_Se.gif]

Editor, Writer, VA
Darker than Black - Hyperabridged
My VA Channel (Sokka Shorts/RANGER DOOWOP)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes eagle8burger's post
03-05-2015, 01:44 PM
Post: #4
RE: US Health Care
Me, personally, I agree with Canadian, and pretty much all of Europe's Healthcare options. However, I think it really should be more efficient, and I don't mean money wise, but timewise and administration wise (Not government, but the managers and the employees of said programs) could be trained or designed in a way to reduce waiting times and allow costs of going to the Doctor's (When there's co-pays) to go with the overall costs of going to the doctor, or the hospital. However, this is from the outside looking in, and probably is a bit (or a lot) different than what it actually is.
I think, if either Europeans (And Canada) present, or Americans see how a public healthcare like program can be cost effective, and efficient (waiting time is short) then most likely even the most libertarian and Right-Wing individuals would have to agree that it's a good thing, or a very viable option.

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-05-2015, 05:25 PM
Post: #5
RE: US Health Care
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but there's two things I wanna bring up:

1) The problem is not American health care. American health care is the best in the world. People come to America to have the most advanced surgeries and procedures available. American physicians and researchers are the ones that will produce the next big pill that will cure or treat "x disease" better. I don't know if American doctors will be the ones to cure some of the more severe forms of cancer, but American doctors won't be far behind in implementing it.

The problem is the health care system; how treatment is paid for and delivered to people who don't have the expendable income to "buy" health care.

2) Europe is not a country, and the "European-style" health care system does not exist. European countries deal with delivering health care in many different ways. The UK and France have universal single-payer systems, which is what Canadians have, but Germany for example has a universal multi-payer system that isn't that different from what the US has (basically, anyone making less than $45,000 a year gets government health care, and anyone making more can buy private stuff).

[Image: DIkziCj.png?1]

Twitter: Truthordeal

"Every man's heart one day beats its final beat, his lungs breath their final breath. And if what that man did in his life, makes the blood pulse through the body of others, and makes them believe deeper in something larger than life, then his essence, his spirit, will be immortalized by the storytellers, by the loyalty, by the memory, of those who honor him and make whatever the man did live forever."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Truthordeal's post
03-05-2015, 10:26 PM
Post: #6
RE: US Health Care
That's my bad in topic creation. I should have specified on the system element. In my head they are usually synonymous, but they are two very different things. My bad.

Heart ~ I'LL PLAY MYSELF OUT ~ Heart
[Image: Xul_Se.gif]

Editor, Writer, VA
Darker than Black - Hyperabridged
My VA Channel (Sokka Shorts/RANGER DOOWOP)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2015, 01:04 AM
Post: #7
RE: US Health Care
(03-05-2015 09:24 AM)eagle8burger Wrote:  Some of the things the video mentioned were a little overtly libertarian for my liking-

SOCIALIST!!!

What would you say about the idea of more localized care? Fewer nationalized healthcare institutions, more local "Mom & Pop" type businesses? And do you think citizens are (or perhaps more importantly, should be treated as if they are) intelligent enough to manage their own well-being?

I ask that not to bait out statist responses, but to follow-up with the idea of self-regulation. I like keeping to myself; don't want no one telling me what's best for me when they aren't me. So I go when I need to and be done with it. I cover for catastrophic disasters and stuff (getting run over by a haul truck is a very real danger), but I don't rush to the E.R. and get heli'ed out for a hangnail.

I think most people want that brand of care, where they're in control of it and can make the most of it, even if for them that's piling money into a pool with other volunteers to cover literally everything, a la single-payer (I think?). The deliberation vs. fiat debate is my major beef, regardless of the personal financial cost it is to me. I'd rather choose to pay for someone else's care than be forced to pay for someone else's care.

The corporatism we're experiencing today notwithstanding. We're all against that, lol.

You are what you put your time into.

My Series: https://www.youtube.com/user/Abridgelion

Skype: anax.of.rhodes
E-mail: anaxofrhodes@gmail.com (or Abridgelion@gmail.com )
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/AnaxofRhodes/

Spoiler(Show)
[Image: 252ce5d1fb2620570990fc35cff72412.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2015, 01:39 AM
Post: #8
RE: US Health Care
(03-06-2015 01:04 AM)Anax Wrote:  SOCIALIST!!!

Yeah, pretty much.

Heart ~ I'LL PLAY MYSELF OUT ~ Heart
[Image: Xul_Se.gif]

Editor, Writer, VA
Darker than Black - Hyperabridged
My VA Channel (Sokka Shorts/RANGER DOOWOP)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2015, 08:22 AM
Post: #9
RE: US Health Care
(03-06-2015 01:04 AM)Anax Wrote:  What would you say about the idea of more localized care? Fewer nationalized healthcare institutions, more local "Mom & Pop" type businesses?

This isn't a bad idea in terms of better care; private practices are very very popular, especially for pediatrics, because they can deliver on that more personalized bed-side manner. My personal doctor is part of a private practice, and I've never been disappointed with the care I've received.

The problem is that they're more expensive than a hospital, simply due to the cost sharing involved. Hospitals are usually subsidized through either the government (local, state or national), universities or charities/religious institutions (St. Jude's for example). This is, of course, ignoring for-profit hospitals, which I don't care for. Regardless, hospitals are by-scale cheaper to keep running because the cost is shared by a larger number of people. A private practice, Mom and Pop type office, might have 5-10 people involved in it. A hospital has hundreds. Because of this cheapness and because they're getting money from an outside source, hospitals can also afford more expensive and advanced equipment. It is very unlikely to find an MRI or receive surgery in a private practice, because they can't afford it. Hospitals are also better at attracting specialists; they can pay them more and can accommodate more people. Private practices tend to have very general care, with maybe a few specialties, most commonly obstetrics or pediatric.

This is the case in America, but it's also pretty applicable to other countries. The difference is that you have another source paying for treatment.

(03-06-2015 01:04 AM)Anax Wrote:  And do you think citizens are (or perhaps more importantly, should be treated as if they are) intelligent enough to manage their own well-being?

No. People are stupid. That may be the only logical constant in the universe. Even if individual persons are intelligent, they can be easily suckered, misinformed or otherwise choose something that is not in their best interests.

"I have skin cancer, which is easily treatable via normal medical means, but my grandma died in a hospital when she had lung cancer so I'm going to try a homeopathic treatment and eat nothing but raw meat for a year."

That is not an exaggeration. That's a conversation I've had with erstwhile intelligent people who are so driven by their emotions or some distrust of "the man" that they make choices that are obviously bad for them, and you can't convince them otherwise. I wouldn't trust myself to make a huge medical decision without my doctor's consent, because I don't have the 7+ years of school and expertise that my doctor does and it's insanely arrogant of me to think that I could make a better informed decision just because I went to WebMD once.

If I have to pay into a healthcare system, I want people getting actual treatment from it. I should not have to subsidize someone's boneheaded idea to visit a chiropractor three times a week. If you allow people to manage their own healthcare, that's what's going to end up happening.

[Image: DIkziCj.png?1]

Twitter: Truthordeal

"Every man's heart one day beats its final beat, his lungs breath their final breath. And if what that man did in his life, makes the blood pulse through the body of others, and makes them believe deeper in something larger than life, then his essence, his spirit, will be immortalized by the storytellers, by the loyalty, by the memory, of those who honor him and make whatever the man did live forever."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2015, 05:51 PM
Post: #10
RE: US Health Care

You are what you put your time into.

My Series: https://www.youtube.com/user/Abridgelion

Skype: anax.of.rhodes
E-mail: anaxofrhodes@gmail.com (or Abridgelion@gmail.com )
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/AnaxofRhodes/

Spoiler(Show)
[Image: 252ce5d1fb2620570990fc35cff72412.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2015, 07:26 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2015 07:30 PM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #11
RE: US Health Care
What is health insurance? Why does it exist? What are the pros and cons of any insurance system?

Health insurance is based on the idea that, if everyone pays towards a mutual fund, the people who need the care the most can pay less (and get the care they need), and the people who don't need as much care can help support their fellow citizens.

What better way to institute this than a single health insurance pool, that isn't run for-profit? This is why government-run health insurance programs are the most efficient, time after time, country after country.

When it comes to politics and economic policy, the free market is a tool. It can be used for certain situations and work really well, or it can be completely inefficient, like trying to dig a hole in the ground with a screwdriver. The free market, along with other libertarian, "Let me do what I want!" individualist rhetoric actually works really well for a lot of things. I wouldn't recommend a national toy-buying fund so our kids can all afford toys at retailers, put together by a government-run toycare fund, paid for by taxes. But when it comes to something important and vital to every single human life, i.e. something that should be a human right to anyone living in a country that can afford it (did you know: the US is the richest country in the world), then a government-run institution is likely going to be the best way to tackle it.

You can complain all you want about the government making your decisions for you, but you have the power to vote and protest and lawmakers -at least somewhat- have to answer to the people they represent. Insurance companies can do whatever they want, including paying ridiculous sums of money to their completely unnecessary employees and executives, whose jobs are born exclusively from the mere fact that it's a private system. What "choice" do you really have in this private system, when lobbying for the insurance companies ensures that they can bend whatever rules they want? Lobbying for the insurance companies is so strong that they caused a "liberal" candidate (don't make me laugh) to immediately abandon a universal healthcare policy the moment the Obamacare debates began, and instead adopt his healthcare policy from a conservative thinktank. Obamacare is just about as conservative as it could possibly get, excluding the option of just ditching it altogether and maintaining the previous, failing system. This coming from the politician that Fox News, every other conservative news outlet, and every libertarian outlet loves to cry "Socialist", "Marxist", "Communist", "Nazi", etc. at. Obamacare is a fig leaf: It doesn't do much to solve the problem, but since people think we did something, the demand for reform goes away.

As for the care itself, and not the insurance side of things, Mom and Pop sounds nice, again, just like individualist "get the gubbermint outta my life!!!!", but falls short of good results. At the end of the day, we should all want one thing: What works. What healthcare/health insurance system is the most efficient? Which system provides the best care to the most people? Which system saves the most lives?

This isn't about what you want. This isn't about what I want. This isn't about evil gubmint or corporations. This is about what works. Hell, I'd be fine with the corporate option if it worked. It doesn't though.

Oh, and another thing? If we didn't have to worry about healthcare in order to work, this would convince more people to work, even if only part time. I myself am stuck on Medicaid until I can start my career, and while the care has been great and very little hassle and no cost at all, if I at any point make more than $900 of income in a month, I lose my health insurance. This incentivised me to decrease my hours at all the jobs I've had (part-time, retail), because the health insurance options they offered me not only cost money, but also sucked by comparison. I wasn't about to work more hours at almost-minimum-wage so I could make -less- money for -worse- healthcare.

Decouple health insurance from jobs. Replace Obamacare with a real, single-payer system like England or Canada. Get money out of politics so our government has to answer to us and not their campaign donors. Boom, healthcare crisis solved.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2015, 09:24 PM
Post: #12
RE: US Health Care
I bought band-aids as an impulse buy the other day.
We can look after ourselves.

[Image: 064oLU8.gif][Image: ZvCxvJM.gif]
Find this shit on YouTube: Exactly what it says on the tin (Cornstomper).
Check out my comedy band!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Cornstomper's post
03-07-2015, 06:20 AM
Post: #13
RE: US Health Care
(03-06-2015 07:26 PM)1KidsEntertainment Wrote:  What better way to institute this than a single health insurance pool, that isn't run for-profit? This is why government-run health insurance programs are the most efficient, time after time, country after country.

Took the words out of my mouth. I tend to be against more bureaucracy in the big picture, but the government's ability to efficiently run non-profits should not be underestimated by any means.

Heart ~ I'LL PLAY MYSELF OUT ~ Heart
[Image: Xul_Se.gif]

Editor, Writer, VA
Darker than Black - Hyperabridged
My VA Channel (Sokka Shorts/RANGER DOOWOP)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-07-2015, 08:50 AM
Post: #14
RE: US Health Care
I'd argue a better interpretation is non-profits run themselves very well when they have the nudge of government support. The key to it is people voluntarily doing something for their cause. The Boy Scouts runs very well mostly because of the time, money, and effort of the Scouts and adult leaders; they could get along fairly well if they didn't get public money and land grants, helpful as those are.

The source has to be good people wanting and willing to do good. If you don't have that, you won't find success in any method. How to encourage that successfully is my question.

You are what you put your time into.

My Series: https://www.youtube.com/user/Abridgelion

Skype: anax.of.rhodes
E-mail: anaxofrhodes@gmail.com (or Abridgelion@gmail.com )
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/AnaxofRhodes/

Spoiler(Show)
[Image: 252ce5d1fb2620570990fc35cff72412.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-07-2015, 04:40 PM (This post was last modified: 03-07-2015 04:42 PM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #15
RE: US Health Care
(03-07-2015 08:50 AM)Anax Wrote:  I'd argue a better interpretation is non-profits run themselves very well when they have the nudge of government support. The key to it is people voluntarily doing something for their cause. The Boy Scouts runs very well mostly because of the time, money, and effort of the Scouts and adult leaders; they could get along fairly well if they didn't get public money and land grants, helpful as those are.

The source has to be good people wanting and willing to do good. If you don't have that, you won't find success in any method. How to encourage that successfully is my question.

Pretty sure most doctors do what they do to help people. The amount of training and studying doctors have to go through to get to a point where they can take care of people is rightfully ginormous. The job pays well, but what about the incredible amount of student loan debt they'll rack up in the time before they start making good money?

The job is literally helping people. You don't need to encourage people to want to do that. Luckily, we don't live in nearly as misanthropic of a society as people think. Plus, isn't your Libertarian doctrine based on the idea that people are inherently good enough and smart enough? You can't force people to be doctors. That's why communism doesn't work.

If you're saying the issue is wanting to encourage more people to become doctors, well okay, that's an issue, but that completely ignores the currently greater issue of the health insurance system that we have here. You wanna encourage more doctors? Let's reduce the interest rates on student loan debt. Let's work to make college educations cheaper. Let's put more public funding into hospitals, schools, and medical research. Fix the insurance system so people will go to a doctor when a condition first presents itself, rather than waiting for it to fester and grow and become super costly, just because they're afraid of going bankrupt to get basic healthcare.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-08-2015, 04:20 AM
Post: #16
RE: US Health Care
Quote:Fix the insurance system so people will go to a doctor when a condition first presents itself, rather than waiting for it to fester and grow and become super costly, just because they're afraid of going bankrupt to get basic healthcare.

Forgive me, but I don't foresee a government-run healthcare scheme that insures everybody will encourage this kind of reaction. If you're under the impression you can get an A whether you do an assignment two weeks ahead of time, or the night before, chances are you'll do the latter.

The source still has to be people wanting to do good; the question is how best to foster and utilize that good. If each individual were responsible for their own care, without a safety net, they'd take it more seriously, search out more options, handle their healthcare money more thriftily, etc. If merit is the primary aspect to incentivize Doctors to improve, a free market would foster that better than a stagnant-pay federal income. The problem is more that what is assured will be abused, less that what is there is insufficient.

The second half regarding poorer people who can't afford basic care I can't answer save for having faith in private citizens.

You are what you put your time into.

My Series: https://www.youtube.com/user/Abridgelion

Skype: anax.of.rhodes
E-mail: anaxofrhodes@gmail.com (or Abridgelion@gmail.com )
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/AnaxofRhodes/

Spoiler(Show)
[Image: 252ce5d1fb2620570990fc35cff72412.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-08-2015, 04:53 AM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2015 03:53 PM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #17
RE: US Health Care
(03-08-2015 04:20 AM)Anax Wrote:  
Quote:Fix the insurance system so people will go to a doctor when a condition first presents itself, rather than waiting for it to fester and grow and become super costly, just because they're afraid of going bankrupt to get basic healthcare.

Forgive me, but I don't foresee a government-run healthcare scheme that insures everybody will encourage this kind of reaction. If you're under the impression you can get an A whether you do an assignment two weeks ahead of time, or the night before, chances are you'll do the latter.

You're simply wrong about this. People being more likely to grab preventative care is one of the major reasons Universal Healthcare is so much more efficient than "fuck you pay for yourself".

http://www.amsa.org/AMSA/Libraries/Commi....sflb.ashx
http://www.pnhp.org/publications/a_natio...p?page=all

Like, this is just how it works. You're presented with a problem. Example: an infection. If you don't have healthcare, you probably don't pay the money it takes to go to a doctor to get antibiotics. You just hope it gets better on its own over time. If you do have healthcare, fuck it! You don't have to pay, so go get that shit. In this example, the person doesn't wait for the chance of the infection getting way worse.

A lot of "small" health issues can develop into bigger ones. And a lot of bigger ones start out as detectable and preventable. For instance: Discovering a cancer early on instead of letting it grow and metastasize. What takes more money? Surgically removing the smallest of tumors that is so small they can't tell if it's cancerous, or paying for years of chemo and big surgeries? If you have health insurance, you're more likely to get checkups and let doctors know when there's a problem.

This is -why- we have health insurance. So people stop playing money games with their health.

(03-08-2015 04:20 AM)Anax Wrote:  The source still has to be people wanting to do good; the question is how best to foster and utilize that good. If each individual were responsible for their own care, without a safety net, they'd take it more seriously, search out more options, handle their healthcare money more thriftily, etc. If merit is the primary aspect to incentivize Doctors to improve, a free market would foster that better than a stagnant-pay federal income. The problem is more that what is assured will be abused, less that what is there is insufficient.

This is nonsense. "Take out the safety net and people will be more careful!" only makes sense if the safety net is A. Comfortable and B. For something that isn't vital. Healthcare is important. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, rich, poor, tall, short, young, old. Most people don't want to die. Most people want to be healthy. Having a safety net is to make sure people don't fucking die. It's not so that people can rest on a hammock all day and survive comfortably. I'm just as likely to not want to die regardless of whether I can afford it or not.

You're implying here that doctors are both incentivised mainly by money and by good will. You say "They do it because people are inherently good" and also "Yeah but they'd do better if they could get more money because they're inherently greedy". You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Also, who said federal pay is stagnant? Who said that the federal government can't incentivise good work? I'm not advocating for flat pay or socialism, I'm advocating for a government takeover of a job that insurance companies have proven horribly corrupt and irresponsible for. Your only possible valid complaint with government-run insurance would be "What if it gets corrupt?", to which I say "Well, insurance companies ARE corrupt." I just have a lot more hope for reforming government than I do with a private company responsible to nobody.

Funnily enough, I think the core problem here is getting money out of politics. Root out corruption and we can pass effective universal health care and maintain it properly. Actually, all issues in our government get much, much better if our politicians weren't owned by their campaign donors.

(03-08-2015 04:20 AM)Anax Wrote:  The second half regarding poorer people who can't afford basic care I can't answer save for having faith in private citizens.

That's the problem with the Libertarian argument. You start with a position. An assumption. A hypothesis. People are inherently good. People can take care of themselves. People are the best. Go, people! Sounds great on paper, but sometimes it's just not true. I don't start from a position, I start from a goal: I want whatever works. Give me stats. Give me examples. Give me evidence. Give me good logic. If the Libertarian argument works, I'll go for it! If it doesn't, I won't go for it. And any self-respecting logical person should take that simple position, with any issue.

And universal healthcare works. It just does. We can talk about why, but it's a fact and not debatable.

http://247wallst.com/healthcare-economy/...effective/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/29...25477.html
http://www.nber.org/papers/w13881

In addition, take a look at the sources in some of these links for better data and analysis.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-08-2015, 08:44 AM
Post: #18
RE: US Health Care
(03-08-2015 04:53 AM)1KidsEntertainment Wrote:  Also, who said federal pay is stagnant? Who said that the federal government can't incentivise good work?

This is also really significant to healthcare provision. A major problem in Canada is providing care in rural areas. People should have the free will to live where they want. Similarly, physicians are allowed to open up practices where they want. Government control and incentives can help control a more efficient means of providing care in those areas than a free market practice. Even if we assume that both types of systems would seek to satisfy the supply/demand curve - the government has more economic tools to achieve that result faster without compromising quality of care than an individual practitioner.

Heart ~ I'LL PLAY MYSELF OUT ~ Heart
[Image: Xul_Se.gif]

Editor, Writer, VA
Darker than Black - Hyperabridged
My VA Channel (Sokka Shorts/RANGER DOOWOP)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-08-2015, 03:57 PM
Post: #19
RE: US Health Care
Quote:Surgically removing the smallest of tumors that is so small they can't tell if it's cancerous, or paying for years of chemo and big surgeries?

As Truth said earlier, people are stupid. It makes sense to us; it will not make sense to some (many?) others. We would all have to pay for them. You've more faith than I do in the state's ability to nurture goodwill in absentia.

Quote:Funnily enough, I think the core problem here is getting money out of politics. Root out corruption-

Corporatism is a problem both sides want eliminated. I've mentioned this several times previously. I think you'd be surprised how quickly most of the other problems dissipate if you let private citizens sort out what's best for them afterwards. We can argue till the cows come home over which side is more corrupt. But removing and preventing any incentive to employ corruption should be the first thing to do.

The U.S. shouldn't be compared to nations smaller than individual states. Especially when their defense budgets can be slashed thanks to the artificial shield projected by the metal and men of the United States armed forces.

Argumentation Pro Tip: quotes like

Quote:And universal healthcare works. It just does. We can talk about why, but it's a fact and not debatable.

really discourage the people you're trying to convince to listen to you, regardless of how correct you are. Squeeze harder, and more people will slip through your fingers. Myself included.

You are what you put your time into.

My Series: https://www.youtube.com/user/Abridgelion

Skype: anax.of.rhodes
E-mail: anaxofrhodes@gmail.com (or Abridgelion@gmail.com )
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/AnaxofRhodes/

Spoiler(Show)
[Image: 252ce5d1fb2620570990fc35cff72412.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-09-2015, 10:10 PM
Post: #20
RE: US Health Care
Quote:The second half regarding poorer people who can't afford basic care I can't answer save for having faith in private citizens.

I'm not a massive fan of systems that can't deal with edge cases, which tends to happen when their foundation is ideology rather than factual evidence. The fact you simply have to resort to "hoping" that poorer people's healthcare will be provided for would seem to be a pretty big problem with your proposal?

Quote:I think you'd be surprised how quickly most of the other problems dissipate if you let private citizens sort out what's best for them afterwards.

No, you end up with well-documented problems such as the tragedy of the commons, when private individuals are left completely to pursue their own rational self-interest.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)