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Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
03-04-2012, 02:43 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2012 02:47 PM by Airrest.)
Post: #1
Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
Look into your hearts. You know it to be true.

In terms of abridging, how many subscribers you have says very little about the quality of your show. I'm not saying it doesn't say SOMETHING, because it definitely does speak for the quality of the show to some degree, but it says very little overall. It says much more about the popularity of the source material and even more about who you know and who has promoted you.

Think about the most popular abridgers out there. LK, TFS, PurpleEyes, 1Kids. Just to name a couple. Now what shows do they do? Shows that transcend age, gender, and even niche. Yu-Gi-Oh!, DBZ, Code Geass, and Pokemon. These shows are known by people who are not even anime fans. And shows like Code Geass got immensely popular among the anime fanbase. However, look at those with less subscribers that do just as good a job. GuttedWren, the guys behind Sonic F, and others. The shows don't transcend nerd-dom in the same way. They don't appeal to all ages, genders, and niches. The simple fact of the matter is, because of that simple limitation, those groups will NEVER be as popular as the aforementioned, no matter HOW good the parody is. On top of that, it's all about who you know as well. All of these groups and people know each other, have promoted each other, and have worked together. That certainly helps out a lot. People are more likely to check something out if, for example, LK promotes it once than if you go around spamming your content on every internet forum imaginable for your whole entire life.

And where am I going with all of this? Let me explain.

There are a lot of people that abridge Pokemon, but only a couple are/were popular. There are plenty of people doing Yu-Gi-Oh!, but only LK draws the crowds. TFS was not the first and definitely won't be the last to abridge DBZ, but that's the show everyone loves. It certainly does mean that the quality of these shows is higher than most. There's absolutely no doubt about that. But the bigger point here is: if you're abridging something even remotely obscure (i.e., if your mom hasn't heard of it), you're not going to get that many subscribers. And if you do a REALLY poor job at it, then you'll get almost none.

So don't get discouraged by or all hung up on subscriber numbers. It doesn't matter. Just have fun.

/Airrest's wisdom to the yung'ns.
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03-04-2012, 04:15 PM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2012 11:56 AM by DrMircow.)
Post: #2
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
Pretty neat post, but this is something every experienced abridger should know about. Yet, I won't be surprised by the number of people who didn't know, mostly youngsters, although that's acceptable since they are newcomers. Or at least they should be...

But yeah, definitely don't get discouraged by your almost non-existent audience. People who genuinely have fun are the ones who tend to make good content despite the size of their audience. How come? Since they have fun doing what they are doing, they put passion into their work. Some eventually become perfectionists. Not many, but some do. Funnily enough, it's better for people to not know about your videos in case they are atrocious, hence why a very small audience should suit you. But that's something irrelevant to what we're talking here.

Look around. You can clearly see who is doing it for fun and who is doing it for popularity (the clich

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03-04-2012, 04:26 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2012 04:28 PM by xexyzl.)
Post: #3
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
Pretty much.

I think one of the only reasons I have any subs at all is because we got pimped by a bunch of active Abridgers at the time our first episode dropped. It certainly wasn't due to quality. And then on the flip side, we never got mega-popular because 1) We weren't prolific/good enough and 2) We were mostly closed off from the community (stopped VCing with people and posting on forums like this). Quality and regularity certainly have something to do with it, but you're right that in many ways it's who you know and what you're Abridging.

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03-04-2012, 04:56 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2012 04:57 PM by DrMircow.)
Post: #4
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-04-2012 04:26 PM)xexyzl Wrote:  ...and regularity certainly have something to do with it, but you're right that in many ways it's who you know and what you're Abridging.

How often you upload content is a big factor when it comes to subscribers and their feedback, even loyalty. Uploading moderately/consistently increases your chances that your audience will stick around for a long time.

If you have a small audience of roughly 300 subscribers for example, which is fairly impressive depending on your level of experience, but you haven't uploaded something in like 6 months, you'll see a huge lack of comments and views from people in your comeback video, compared to previous videos. Mostly because at least half of the initial audience moved on in the past months and forgot about you or started following someone better than you. This is with the condition that you're fairly inactive on other places like Twittter, Facebook and whatnot where you can potentially promote yourself or your stuff as well.

True story, but it's not always the case though. I went through that twice, however, I'm not bothered about it in the slightest. And that should be the general attitude of someone who isn't concerned of popularity. Although, it's acceptable to feel sorry that you let down some of your loyal fans. But that's what being loyal is about, isn't it? Waiting even for 6 months for new content without bitching too much and being there when it comes out.

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03-04-2012, 06:31 PM
Post: #5
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
Actually recently on youtube subscriber numbers are literally bullshit. They're glitched so you can't actually tell how many subscribers you have. How crazy is that?

Thanks for all the good times.
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03-04-2012, 08:13 PM
Post: #6
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-04-2012 06:31 PM)mattroks101 Wrote:  Actually recently on youtube subscriber numbers are literally bullshit. They're glitched so you can't actually tell how many subscribers you have. How crazy is that?

And I've told you already that they got rid of dead or suspended accounts in the subscriber count, which is why they don't match up.

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03-04-2012, 08:18 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2012 08:19 PM by Airrest.)
Post: #7
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-04-2012 08:13 PM)Truthordeal Wrote:  
(03-04-2012 06:31 PM)mattroks101 Wrote:  Actually recently on youtube subscriber numbers are literally bullshit. They're glitched so you can't actually tell how many subscribers you have. How crazy is that?

And I've told you already that they got rid of dead or suspended accounts in the subscriber count, which is why they don't match up.

Correct. I never heard anything about a "glitch". They should actually be more accurate now than ever.
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03-04-2012, 10:09 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2012 10:24 PM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #8
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
Subscriber numbers are not "bullshit", as your title would suggest. They are also not a clear indicator of quality. They are results of a combination of things. Promotion, quality, regularity, effort, does it grab attention, is it a popular show, is the production quality good, is it memetic (repeatable), is it rewatchable, does it age well, how large is the target audience, etc.

Heck, Subscriber counts aren't even a good indicator of popularity. Average Subscriber *rates*, on the other hand, are a better measure of how much "buzz", so to speak, there is about a show/channel.

Though I must point out that GuttedWren isn't popular in my eyes because they're bland and boring as fuck.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-04-2012, 10:27 PM
Post: #9
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-04-2012 08:18 PM)Airrest Wrote:  Correct. I never heard anything about a "glitch". They should actually be more accurate now than ever.

Nope, mine don't add up. The numbers are different on mine. If I check stats then check my channel. The numbers are different every time. So it's kinda hard to tell what the real number of subscribers I have is. For example: On my side bar it has said that I have had only 335 subscribers while on my page it's said I had 340. After several days it now says 337 on my side bar but it still says 340 on the main page.

Thanks for all the good times.
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03-04-2012, 10:42 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2012 10:50 PM by Airrest.)
Post: #10
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-04-2012 10:09 PM)1KidsEntertainment Wrote:  Average Subscriber *rates*, on the other hand, are a better measure of how much "buzz", so to speak, there is about a show/channel.

Disagree to an extent. I think they're logrithmic exponential. It works like the old "one guy tells his two friends and then that guy tells two of his friends and then those guys tell two of their friends and repeat" to the point where you have an explosion of growth that eventually tops off somewhere. Being that the internet is so vast and there is so much content out there, it's virtually impossible to set in motion an explosion of subscriber growth unless you meet certain criteria, which I already pointed out and you expanded on (e.g., a popular show that transcends generations, gender, and niche, a plug from someone else who has a large fanbase, and a quality product). If you don't have all three of those things (at the very least), shits never going anywhere, no matter how good you are.

And again, my major point is that subscriber counts are fairly worthless because of that fact. Thus, people should worry less about that and more about having fun. I feel like a lot of the newcomers are really lost in that regard. And that's why I say they're bullshit.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of GuttenWren either. I find it pretty boring as well. But it was just something that popped into my head as something well-done.
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03-04-2012, 11:13 PM
Post: #11
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-04-2012 10:42 PM)Airrest Wrote:  
(03-04-2012 10:09 PM)1KidsEntertainment Wrote:  Average Subscriber *rates*, on the other hand, are a better measure of how much "buzz", so to speak, there is about a show/channel.

Disagree to an extent. I think they're logrithmic exponential. It works like the old "one guy tells his two friends and then that guy tells two of his friends and then those guys tell two of their friends and repeat" to the point where you have an explosion of growth that eventually tops off somewhere. Being that the internet is so vast and there is so much content out there, it's virtually impossible to set in motion an explosion of subscriber growth unless you meet certain criteria, which I already pointed out and you expanded on (e.g., a popular show that transcends generations, gender, and niche, a plug from someone else who has a large fanbase, and a quality product). If you don't have all three of those things (at the very least), shits never going anywhere, no matter how good you are.

And again, my major point is that subscriber counts are fairly worthless because of that fact. Thus, people should worry less about that and more about having fun. I feel like a lot of the newcomers are really lost in that regard. And that's why I say they're bullshit.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of GuttenWren either. I find it pretty boring as well. But it was just something that popped into my head as something well-done.

I disagree that you *need* those 3 things. There are things out there with more notoriety than they deserve that don't have those things. See *most* abridged series. They're pretty bad. Yet some of these terrible series have multiple thousand subscribers. Another thing that helps is length of time the content has been available.

Look at Adamwestslapdog. Note: Funny guy to talk to. Not a funny series. Legend of Zelda is hardly a Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, or DBZ, and it's not exactly something people look for videos of all the time. Yet he's got, what, 34k+ subs? That's more than my channel has. I don't mean to be a snob or anything, but like.... he doesn't deserve that. At least by comparison to some of the other people out there. How he's anywhere near, for instance, PurpleEyes' sub count, is beyond me.

Certainly, when you have a higher subscriber count, it's easier to gain subscribers, but not always. When you have some time, throw some of the bigger abridger names around http://www.vidstatsx.com and see for yourself. Subscriber *rate* is usually more accurate about buzz and popularity than subscriber count. Still not the same thing as quality, though.

I wouldn't give GuttedWren as an example of something well-done at all. The script is bland, the voices are bland, the editing is mediocre at best. And on top of all that, it's waaaaaaaaay too long. Consistently.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-04-2012, 11:39 PM
Post: #12
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
That's certainly an outlier.
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03-05-2012, 04:12 PM
Post: #13
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
I agree with Airrest, but I felt obligated to remind everyone of HBI2K's existence. He has three completed abridged series that are all originate from obscure anime. Is he an outlier? Probably. But I think his example shows that patience and consistency can overcome the accepted 'criteria' needed to get subscribers.

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03-05-2012, 05:03 PM
Post: #14
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
I both agree and disagree with this. I do agree that we don't need to rely on subscribers to know that our stuff is being watched. It should be done mainly out of enjoyment anyway.

BUT the sad thing is, I know people who judge the quality of a series based on its subscribers. I have one friend for instance who won't even look at a show that has less than 1000 subscribers. The only series he likes is TFS. He thinks a series isn't good unless it has at least half the subscribers that LittleKuriboh has. He claims that subscriber counts shows him the quality of a series so he won't waste time. He is not the first person I know who has expressed this opinion.



(03-05-2012 04:12 PM)OoziHobo Wrote:  I agree with Airrest, but I felt obligated to remind everyone of HBI2K's existence. He has three completed abridged series that are all originate from obscure anime. Is he an outlier? Probably. But I think his example shows that patience and consistency can overcome the accepted 'criteria' needed to get subscribers.

HBI2K was the first abridger I actually saw. But I think he said in one of his commentaries that his view count and subscriber account jumped when he did a crossover or refferenced Naruto Abridged (Vegeta/MasakoX)

Though, I may be remembering incorrectly.

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03-05-2012, 05:04 PM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2012 05:04 PM by Truthordeal.)
Post: #15
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
hbi2k also got started even before I did, when there were only three series that didn't make people die of nausea and getting noticed didn't take much more than a decent mic, subless video footage and not-Windows Movie Maker. Honestly I only found out about him because he teamed up with MasaGeta(Naruto Abridge) and Lanipator to do a Christmas Special; if that hadn't happened, most people might not have found out about him until much, much later, and it's debatable if he'd even be in TeamFourStar in that case. Then again, MasaGeta seemed to love obscure anime, so it wouldn't surprise me if they actually knew what Berserk was.

I still think that he would have been "discovered" eventually, like TeamDat was, because of his consistency and his above-average abridging style. That's all counter-factual thinking though, so it doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

But yes, he is an outlier.

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03-05-2012, 05:42 PM
Post: #16
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-05-2012 05:03 PM)TheHawk Wrote:  He thinks a series isn't good unless it has at least half the subscribers that LittleKuriboh has. He claims that subscriber counts shows him the quality of a series so he won't waste time. He is not the first person I know who has expressed this opinion.

Ouch.

(03-05-2012 05:04 PM)Truthordeal Wrote:  Honestly I only found out about him because he teamed up with MasaGeta(Naruto Abridge) and Lanipator to do a Christmas Special.

hbi2k was the third abridger I started following after LK and TeamFourStar, but that was around late 2008. It might be considered slightly late since he started his first series in 2007, although that's when I actually started following abridged series on the Internet. I simply found him by luck (ie. random quest on YouTube) and not by seeing someone else's video where they heavily referenced him.

On the other hand, that's how I discovered TeamFourStar eventually, through LK's later episodes (around Episodes 25-35, I think) when he started referencing them and claiming that they were/are better than him. Especially that video with "Extra Calcium".

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03-05-2012, 06:32 PM
Post: #17
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
hibi2k: Never heard of him

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03-05-2012, 08:44 PM
Post: #18
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-05-2012 06:32 PM)DEEsidia97 Wrote:  hibi2k: Never heard of him
Sarcasm? . . .

I was going to bring up hbi2k since he is one of those odd cases with relatively unknown source materials. He did everything right though: turned out episodes like clockwork, was one of the first to jump on the bandwagon, made ties with popular series early on, and oh yeah, he was hilarious.

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03-05-2012, 11:33 PM
Post: #19
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-05-2012 05:42 PM)DrMircow Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 05:03 PM)TheHawk Wrote:  He thinks a series isn't good unless it has at least half the subscribers that LittleKuriboh has. He claims that subscriber counts shows him the quality of a series so he won't waste time. He is not the first person I know who has expressed this opinion.

Ouch.

Tell me about it. Needless to say, we do not see eye to eye on these issues. I told him that was a BS statement because even the more successful series rarely break 5,000- 10,000 subscribers. But, some people are just pigheaded.

I'm just happy if someone out there enjoys what I've put time and effort into doing. I'm sure that is how most of us on here are.

So, to Hell with the subscribers! Let's continue doing what we enjoy!

PS. Subscribers are nice to have and I don't really want them to go to hell. I'd rather they subscribe. Tongue

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03-06-2012, 05:27 AM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2012 06:40 PM by DEEsidia97.)
Post: #20
RE: Subscriber Numbers Are Bullshit
(03-05-2012 08:44 PM)xexyzl Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 06:32 PM)DEEsidia97 Wrote:  hibi2k: Never heard of him
Sarcasm? . . .

Nope, I sereously never heard of him Tongue

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