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Last Dance with Mary Jane
08-25-2012, 08:48 AM
Post: #1
Last Dance with Mary Jane
1Kid's posting on twitter made me think that maybe this could be an interesting thread for this sub-forum.

Marijuana! How do you feel about it? Should it be legalized? Is it dangerous? Is it immoral? And by your own admission, do you use the plant for recreational purposes yourself?

I'll make a contributing post later if this drums up some discussion.

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08-25-2012, 09:40 AM
Post: #2
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(08-25-2012 08:48 AM)OoziHobo Wrote:  And by your own admission, do you use the plant for recreational purposes yourself?

Hold off on answering this one guys. I think this question leads to a very tenuous legal area and admissions might be against the server's terms of use. Airrest knows more about that, so he can make that decision though.

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08-25-2012, 10:12 AM
Post: #3
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
First of all, the title of the song is "Mary Jane's Last Dance". I've got the Tom Petty CD, I should know.

After much research and debate on this topic, I can truly say that people freak out a tad too much when it comes to this. I've even convinced our school police officer that mar-i-ju-ana isn't really all as bad as people say.

It's clean, it's healthy, it's used for medicinal purposes.

Honestly, I don't see why all the big fuss is necessary. The whole illegalizing it was from newspaper companies, way back in the early '50s, when weed was used for other things than smoking. One newspaper company had been using hemp for their paper, and started pushing ahead of another newspaper company, whose CEO knew certain people in power.

The rest, as they say, is history, and now people are fighting and screaming over a drug that isn't really all that dangerous, unless the user is driving.

Guess what else is like that, and much worse?

And it's legal.

Rant over.
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08-25-2012, 10:24 AM
Post: #4
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(08-25-2012 10:12 AM)concrete Building Wrote:  First of all, the title of the song is "Mary Jane's Last Dance". I've got the Tom Petty CD, I should know.

And the song goes, "Laaaaaaaaaaaast daaaaance with Maary Jaaaane, one more time to kill the PaaaYAAAaaaiiine."

I can play it on the gee-tar, I should know. >:[

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08-25-2012, 11:05 AM
Post: #5
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
And here I was thinking that it was a Tom Petty thread...

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08-25-2012, 12:00 PM (This post was last modified: 08-25-2012 12:13 PM by Airrest.)
Post: #6
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(08-25-2012 09:40 AM)Truthordeal Wrote:  
(08-25-2012 08:48 AM)OoziHobo Wrote:  And by your own admission, do you use the plant for recreational purposes yourself?

Hold off on answering this one guys. I think this question leads to a very tenuous legal area and admissions might be against the server's terms of use. Airrest knows more about that, so he can make that decision though.

Why didn't you just lock the thread, man?

I have no idea if it's against our host's TOS. I'll have to check. I personally have no problem with it though. I'm gonna lock the thread until I figure it out.

I've checked out the TOS with our host and decided to unlock the thread. Our host specifically forbids discussing drug paraphernalia, but only when on an ad-supported site.

Firstly, we're not ad-supported, so that doesn't apply to us. Secondly, drug paraphernalia is defined as "any equipment, product, or material that is modified for making, using, or concealing drugs".

Discussing the legalization of marijuana (or any other drug) is not against our TOS and is okay with me.

Continue.
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08-25-2012, 01:10 PM
Post: #7
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
Eh, you've heard the arguments for how marijuana is good and/or bad, so I won't go into that. What I will say is I haven't tried it myself, nor do I plan to, but I don't begrudge anybody else the freedom to do it. I personally say make it legal, tax it, and stop wasting government money cracking down on marijuana dealers/producers when you could be worrying about the actually harmful stuff like methamphetamine and the like.

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08-26-2012, 04:11 AM (This post was last modified: 08-26-2012 05:04 AM by Innagadadavida.)
Post: #8
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
Marijuana is fucking great. I cant even begin to describe how useful a tool it is to thinkers. I think it gets abused and the 420 culture is a joke and a travesty. In moderation, it is a great little plant.

If I had to explain the experience to those who are interested. It puts you back into your head as you were when you were young. Everything around you has more impact. You're more observant of your surroundings. You're not stressed about anything.

On a basic level I feel like this is what happens in our heads under the influence of THC. But first, without it. We go through our daily lives interacting with the world and learning more about it. As such our brain forms new connections and the more we get used to our surroundings, the less new connections are formed. Remember your first time driving? How scary and fun it was? But the more you drive the more it becomes second nature and you stop thinking about what you're doing and what is around you. Remember the first time you had red velvet cake? How the warm and soft breading massaged your taste-buds and your neurological cake reactions fired in all directions? But the more you have it the less special that experience is. Its still good but you'd be fine without it.

Well under the influence of THC, your brain stops recognizing those age old connections. It starts to feel like you are trying everything again for the first time. You're reminded how delicious food is. You start to enjoy entertainment like TV and even abridged series as a passive experience. As in, you don't look at things critically. You just enjoy it the way you enjoyed everything you watched as a child.

Conversation on marijuana is great. It is impossible to have a closed mind under the influence of the plant. And there is no way of knowing what that feels like unless you've used it. Thinking is even better. You can't stop. It's so much fun to explore your own mind and memories and try to make new connections out of them under the influence.

The term high is very apt. It is a very floaty sensation. Its very much a lot of fun. Don't over use it though. Don't become dependent on it as a coping mechanism. And be wary of the law. But otherwise, I think its a fun way of experiencing life every now and then. And the lasting benefits and perspective you gain from it is immeasurably valuable.

I wrote all of Metabridged fucking toasted. With heavy HEAVY, sober revisions. It was like having two writers separated by time. That was the experiment from the very beginning. Going back and watching your own material while high is like being a regular viewer. So, so valuable for making revisions.

But I'll tell you the one thing greater than Marijuana... Ecstasy. Holy shit that stuff is good. That is a defragmenter for your relationships if I've ever seen one. You will never feel more connected with the people around you as you do on E. Good stuff. Jolly good stuff. Sex on E is without a doubt the most sensational experience possible in our monkey brains.
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08-29-2012, 08:31 PM
Post: #9
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
I have nothing bad to say about weed but every point i have to make was already posted
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03-11-2013, 07:46 PM
Post: #10
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
I don't partake myself, but I'm all for it.

Not least because without it I wouldn't have a co-writer. And without a co-writer I wouldn't be nearly almost Internet-famous.

So yeah. Personal freedoms and rights of the individual and all that. It all gets a thumbs-up from me.

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03-11-2013, 07:49 PM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 07:52 PM by Airrest.)
Post: #11
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(08-25-2012 08:48 AM)OoziHobo Wrote:  Marijuana!
It exists.

(08-25-2012 08:48 AM)OoziHobo Wrote:  Should it be legalized?
Yes.

(08-25-2012 08:48 AM)OoziHobo Wrote:  Is it dangerous?
No.

(08-25-2012 08:48 AM)OoziHobo Wrote:  Is it immoral?
No.


End thread.

ITT: I just realized this thread was a bazillion years old and I've already commented in the past.

Sigh.
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03-11-2013, 07:55 PM
Post: #12
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
If only somebody with a contrary viewpoint would come along and write an excessively long post on why he thinks we're all wrong...it just doesn't feel the same without it.

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03-11-2013, 09:14 PM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 09:59 PM by SoDA.)
Post: #13
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
The fact that I get high is actually a running joke among a lot of abridgers I regularly talk to. This is mainly because when it comes to creativity within entertaining a call, or when it comes to recording let's plays, pamelas, and scripting, there's a distinct difference between what comes out of those things when I smoke, and when I don't.

It isn't to say I think I'm funnier when I'm high then when I'm not, but when I do anything vaguely productive, what results from either condition has a distinct difference. I guess what results after smoking when I script or record or whatever, is alot more of a freeform, sudden realization that some train of thought, out of the many I have simultaniously, in either condition, actually sounds pretty funny, and a decision to write something or structure the joke i'm making in a recording around that train of thought. This happens when I'm sober too, but the gap between what times it happens is far greater.

Some people simply have stronger cognitive and creative output when they have THC in their systems. It's a combination of the actual sensation of THC, and the extra flow of blood to the brain cause by the increased heart rate. At least that's what I feel happens.

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03-11-2013, 09:23 PM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 09:26 PM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #14
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
I actually really don't like marijuana, and in general, I don't approve of the legalization of any drug for recreational use. The best arguments I've heard for it are the negative effects of the drug war. Marijuana, while possibly "healthier" than alcohol in some ways (though let it be known that I'm against recreational alcohol use as well, but only don't advocate for its prohibition since history has proven that prohibition of alcohol has a negative effect to how ingrained it is in our culture), is still unhealthy, especially when consumed via smoking. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling you a line.

Medical use is totally fine though. At least there's a good reason for using it in that case other than "it feels good".

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-12-2013, 04:52 AM
Post: #15
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
Headbang

The prohibition of marijuana is responsible for the fucking atrocities that are happening in Mexico right now. The same exact problems with the prohibition of alcohol happens with Marijuana. It's just conveniently out of your front lawn and off of your newspapers. The fucking money that the Mexican cartel gets by smuggling it into the United States has killed millions of innocent Mexicans and empowered some awful people. The reason it was made illegal in the first place was because of racism and corporate greed. Because Blacks and Mexicans were using it recreationally and white people thought it made them lazy and they wouldn't work hard enough for them. Additionally one of the main proponents of making it illegal was a fucking tobacco company. They helped fund the propaganda film Refer Madness. A film which even Onekids would find hilarious. It however was the first exposure many middle class white Americans had to the plant. It was filled with lies and scare tactics and helped push a movement to make it illegal so white people could further oppress other races by taking away things they liked and the tobacco industry wouldn't be threatened by a safer, more potent drug.

I do use it recreationally. Though my opinion on it has evolved over the years and I dont place as much value on it as I once did. But it was an immeasurably important tool in my growth as a musician, a writer, and a thinker. I don't need it. I never did. But the perspective I had while under the influence was so radically different than my sober self that it really rocked my world.
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03-12-2013, 09:36 AM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2013 09:52 AM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #16
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
See, there are a couple of points there where you lose me.

Fact: The drug war is currently a massive failure
Not fact: There is no way to prohibit recreational use of marijuana (or alcohol) without the consequences of a black market and violent, organized drug cartel.

The thing is, the drug war is also currently being supported by privatized prisons, who advocate for the jailing of marijuana users and possessers, rather than imposing a heavy fine on them and jailing the distributors/cartel members. Of course the current system isn't working. Our government is corrupt as fuck and almost any system imposed by them right now will likewise be corrupt as fuck.

I'm not convinced that there isn't a way to do it. I'm not convinced that there IS a way to do it either. I just think that "it'll never work ever" is closed minded.

As for why it was instituted in the first place? I honestly couldn't care less. There are plenty of reasons to be against the legalization of recreational drugs. Likewise, I care less about how Obamacare came about than I care about the contents of Obamacare.

I'm a pretty liberal guy on most issues. Especially on the American political scale. However, the legalization of marijuana (and other recreational drugs) seems merely like a scheme of the American left to appeal to lesser-educated people that normally do not give a damn about politics. However, I don't think that legalization is a liberal value at all.

As a progressive, I adamantly recognize that the rights of a group of people often trump the rights of an individual. Individual rights are very important. But not when an individual's right interferes on the rights of another individual. We can't all be allowed to drive at whatever speed we wish, because you then are very likely to interfere with the rights of others to drive on the roads they pay for without getting their car totaled, their life stolen, or even merely their commute doubled.

Likewise, drugs increase the chances of our interfering in each others' individual rights. Marijuana is included on this, though a worse offender would obviously be alcohol. When you willingly put a drug into your system that induces any kind of mind-altering state, you claim responsibility for whatever you do under that new mental state. And sure, oftentimes that will not result in harming others, but oftentimes it will. How often am I going to be forced to witness the consequences of the "drugs are cool" culture of today before people are willing to admit publicly that showing up to work high/drunk or getting violent while drunk/high or throwing your life away for drugs/alcohol are not things that should be glorified or tolerated?

The problem with the drug war of today is that it is corrupt and it is therefore ineffective of achieving anything other than adding more revenue to the incomes of politicians and corporations that benefit from it. That does not mean that the concept is bad or that it is impossible to do.

Just a note, I'm not convinced that there isn't a way to prohibit (or at least dramatically regulate and limit) alcohol either, but it is so ingrained in our culture (not to mention propped up on a protected pedastal due to early 20th century prohibition) that advocating for it is a waste of time. Instead, the next step towards responsible alcohol reduction are things like stricter regulations on where & how alcohol can be sold.

You and I will never agree on this, Inna. You like it too much.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-12-2013, 10:15 AM
Post: #17
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(08-26-2012 04:11 AM)Innagadadavida Wrote:  In moderation, it is a great little plant.

There's where my concerns lie, since the United States has proven itself to be horrible at moderation. How well has our country been able to restrain themselves from fast food? We are the butt of most of the fat jokes and the health classes I've been in have stressed healthy eating so much more than they have in the past. I could list more examples, but I don't want to waste anybody's time.

I really don't have faith in our citizens to control themselves on this. I may not have extensively researched the effects of marijuana, but moderation does not depend on the effects of the drug. Too much of anything is bad.

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03-12-2013, 10:46 AM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2013 10:48 AM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #18
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
The funny thing is what people define as "moderate". I've heard some pot users describe one joint a week as moderate.

That's not moderate. That's consistent. There ARE long-term negative effects you'll suffer from that.

But I'm honestly not worried about that as much. I'm all for the personal freedom to do what you want with your body, etc. It's the collective negative consequences that bother me. I might be completely off on this, but we're not exactly the first society in the history of the world to have a problem with a culture of citizens that wanted to use some sort of mind-altering drug. I once heard in school (so take this with a grain of salt) that one of the older Chinese dynasties had a problem with their population snorting ground-up mummies. So they banned it. And enforced it properly. Problem fucking solved. Doesn't mean some people didn't manage to get their hands on some and risked breaking the law, but the mass use went away, along with the problems it caused (a watered-down workforce, slowing of advances in science & technology, hallucination-inspired violence).

There is no legislation that will be able to completely get rid of anything ever. But that does not mean we cannot use legislation to reduce or dramatically reduce the use or prevalence of certain things. Prohibition of alcohol did not work because of the psychology behind alcohol use. It is chemically addictive and has been normalized for thousands of years. People don't like when you take things away from them, regardless of the justification. Look at the current NYC ban on soda drinks above a ridiculous amount. There are lots of decent reasons to uphold the law, but people cry "why are you TAKING AWAY OUR FREEDOOOOOOOOOOOM" over such a menial thing. On the other hand, with marijuana, it is already illegal, and while legalization support is growing (almost definitely due to the increase of usage and its rise in pop culture as "cool"), it would still be possible to reform the drug war to make it more effective without causing the massive backlash of the 20's alcohol prohibition.

My suggestions?
1. Get rid of for-profit prisons
2. Don't jail people for victimless crimes (aka usage)
3. Legalize medical use
4. Institute heavy fines on mere usage
5. Crack down on dealers, traffickers, and cartel members
6. Effective gun control
7. More border security
8. Money out of politics, make bribery illegal again, publicly funded elections

With those measures, we wouldn't need to even touch the culture issue.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-12-2013, 03:45 PM
Post: #19
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
1Kids for President.

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03-12-2013, 06:53 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2013 07:40 PM by Airrest.)
Post: #20
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(03-11-2013 09:23 PM)1KidsEntertainment Wrote:  I'm against recreational alcohol use as well

disapproval

Also, in Mike's spiel I saw basically no good reasons to even fine marijuana users. Simply asserting that if Joe-schmoe smokes a joint it might be harmful to others is nonsense and I'm surprised that a reasonable guy like Mike could take such an unreasonable position.

Will stop people from ingesting harmful substances (marijuana not being one) even if it has the potential to harm someone else? Let's look at speeding. Pretty good fines for speeding. People still do it. And reckless speeds are known to cause many accidents and deaths each year. The only way to know if these fines actually stop people from speeding is to look at data. And same would be true with marijuana. And I don't have data on either of those, so I simply don't know.

I feel like we'd all (including you, Mike) be making one big argument from ignorance without the proper data to substantiate any claims.

Regardless, I suppose you could say "even if it causes harm to one other person, it should be fined", in which case it is my opinion that we should fine things that cause equivalent harm. But the thing is, I don't think the level of harm I believe marijuana to cause warrants a fine being levied. And ultimately, the thing is: there's a level of subjectivity to the idea behind issuing fines and no amount of data can decide the consequences for us.
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