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Last Dance with Mary Jane
03-13-2013, 10:14 PM
Post: #41
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(03-13-2013 11:09 AM)1KidsEntertainment Wrote:  You are arguing from an opinion here rather than deriving an opinion from logic. Stop.

Well maybe I will, just to see the look on your face.

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03-15-2013, 05:50 PM (This post was last modified: 03-15-2013 05:53 PM by Innagadadavida.)
Post: #42
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
1kidsEntertainment. I have a proposal.

But before I continue, let me clarify one thing. I am interested in having this discussion. I don't really care if I change your mind. But I do want to be open to your arguments and give you a chance to change mine. And I am not being facetious or sneaky. I want to have an honest, respectful, and open discussion. Free of name calling, belittling, and accusatory language. Let me show you what I do not want to see.

Quote:You and I will never agree on this, Inna. You like it too much.
Accusing the person you're talking to of bias. And admitting that you aren't open to an argument.

Quote:Wow, Eric. There's a lot of bad logic here. I'm surprised.
Intent to belittle the argument by assuming a notion of disappointment.

Quote:Oh yes, appeal to an easily defeated fallacy often used as a talking point. Color me convinced, now! POT IS GOOD, EVERYONE! LEGALIZE NOW!
Reiterating the opposing argument with sarcasm and hyperbole insinuating that it is foolish.

Quote:What a simplistic way to look at things.
Expressions of superiority by degrading the opposing view.

I will not be talked down to. The moment you start acting like an asshole to me, I will just not respond. Treat me with respect and I will do the same for you.

So, if you're interested in having a polite, respectful discussion, lets get one rolling. Summarize to me your view on why marijuana should remain illegal and I'll be happy to evaluate and consider it objectively to the best of my ability. If you do not believe I can be objective enough, then I think it would be in your best interest not to continue the discussion.

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03-15-2013, 08:06 PM
Post: #43
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
I wouldn't accuse 1Kids of not arguing properly if I were you. He has infographics.

Fucking infographics.

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03-15-2013, 10:27 PM (This post was last modified: 03-15-2013 10:32 PM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #44
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(03-15-2013 05:50 PM)Innagadadavida Wrote:  But before I continue, let me clarify one thing. I am interested in having this discussion. I don't really care if I change your mind. But I do want to be open to your arguments and give you a chance to change mine. And I am not being facetious or sneaky. I want to have an honest, respectful, and open discussion. Free of name calling, belittling, and accusatory language. Let me show you what I do not want to see.

Quote:You and I will never agree on this, Inna. You like it too much.
Accusing the person you're talking to of bias. And admitting that you aren't open to an argument.

Here's the thing, man. We've discussed this before. Here and on Skype. We've not come to any consensus on this. You haven't been convinced of my arguments, nor myself of yours. My theory is that you are biased in its favor because you enjoy it on a regular basis.

I'm open to an argument, but the only new point you've put forward is that it gave you an experience that you otherwise wouldn't have had. I do not see that to be enough value to outweigh the negatives of pot. Maybe you do. And if so? Those are almost completely subjective judgments, and we'd be fools to waste more time arguing it.

(03-15-2013 05:50 PM)Innagadadavida Wrote:  
Quote:Wow, Eric. There's a lot of bad logic here. I'm surprised.
Intent to belittle the argument by assuming a notion of disappointment.

Belittle the argument? Try: I'm the guy taking this argument the most seriously out of any person in this thread... far more than I should be (what else is new). Try: I have a lot of respect for Eric, and he's proven to me over a long time that he's pretty good with logic, so to see such blatant gaps in them surprised me. Similarly, if you made a really bad meta joke in Metabridged, I'd likely comment on how out of place it was, and that would probably disappoint me too.

But sure. I'm "belittling the argument". K.

(03-15-2013 05:50 PM)Innagadadavida Wrote:  
Quote:Oh yes, appeal to an easily defeated fallacy often used as a talking point. Color me convinced, now! POT IS GOOD, EVERYONE! LEGALIZE NOW!
Reiterating the opposing argument with sarcasm and hyperbole insinuating that it is foolish.

Yes, that is what I did. Do I have the right to remain silent, officer? I don't see what the issue is here, feel free to explain.

(03-15-2013 05:50 PM)Innagadadavida Wrote:  
Quote:What a simplistic way to look at things.
Expressions of superiority by degrading the opposing view.

Look at your entire post that I'm responding to.

(03-15-2013 05:50 PM)Innagadadavida Wrote:  I will not be talked down to. The moment you start acting like an asshole to me, I will just not respond. Treat me with respect and I will do the same for you.

I do respect you. I also think you are wrong. The two are not mutually exclusive.

(03-15-2013 05:50 PM)Innagadadavida Wrote:  So, if you're interested in having a polite, respectful discussion, lets get one rolling. Summarize to me your view on why marijuana should remain illegal and I'll be happy to evaluate and consider it objectively to the best of my ability.

Read the thread.

Simplistically? The negatives of pot on the macro scale outweigh the positives. On a micro scale, it may feel good, but that does not adequately justify the negatives of pot on a large scale. I am against the drug war in its current incarnation, but am not against the basic concept if executed properly.

(03-15-2013 05:50 PM)Innagadadavida Wrote:  If you do not believe I can be objective enough, then I think it would be in your best interest not to continue the discussion.

Honestly? Throughout all the discussions we've had on this issue? I would say that you haven't demonstrated any objectivity, and it's naive of me to assume that you can. But for the sake of argument, and in the hope of uncovering an argument that isn't weaksauce, I continue to give you the benefit of the doubt.

But how about this for a deal: I promise to knock myself off the high horse (at least towards you) if you promise to do so for yourself as well. I can't help but feel that this whole post was designed to make yourself feel better by attempting to analyze the psychology behind my posts, and in the process, undermine my arguments by ignoring them outright. A thinly veiled ad hominem, if you will.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-15-2013, 10:49 PM
Post: #45
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
The thing about hyperbole and sarcasm is that it isn't really conducive to a healthy exchange of ideas. When you do those things you're trying to get an emotional reaction out of your opponent (and I use that term lightly), mostly by trying to make them angry. And you cannot tell me that you would say something like "Yes, that is what I did. Do I have the right to remain silent, officer" without intending to make the person you're responding to angry.

The main thing is that you're being, at the root of it, insincere, which shows a lack of respect for the person you're arguing with. That's a decent tactic if you're in it to win arguments, but not if you want an open, equivocal discussion.

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03-15-2013, 11:03 PM
Post: #46
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
Sarcasm is so built into my way of communicating that I hardly ever mean it in the way you've described, but I understand that's not how others interpret it, so I'll lay off of it for a bit.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-16-2013, 08:14 AM
Post: #47
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(03-15-2013 11:03 PM)1KidsEntertainment Wrote:  Sarcasm is so built into my way of communicating that I hardly ever mean it in the way you've described, but I understand that's not how others interpret it, so I'll lay off of it for a bit.

There is a serious problem with excessive sarcasm. And I do think that if you are indeed being sarcastic, your behavior at best has been excessive. At worst, you're acting like an asshole. I mean, I have talked to you a whole bunch. I know you to a certain extent. You're a really nice, well meaning guy. But for some reason when you start in on your opinions, man, you get vicious. I'm not sure you realize how its coming across. It makes me not want to have this discussion. Not because I'm afraid of talking to someone with an opposing view, and not because I am afraid you're right and I don't want to be wrong. I consider myself a very rational person when it comes to stuff like that. But you deliberately attempt to elicit emotional reactions. I'm a sucker for that because I wear my heart on my sleeve. So its tough for me to have these conversations. I end up sounding like a blowhard half the time because what I'm reacting to isn't even your argument.

Just be cool man. Let's talk about this stuff. It's very interesting.

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03-16-2013, 11:06 AM (This post was last modified: 03-16-2013 11:07 AM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #48
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
I'll try to keep the sarcasm down. Fair enough.

Gotta get back on topic though. Would you mind if I split these last posts, since they're more about me than the topic?

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-21-2013, 03:44 AM
Post: #49
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
Never used it myself, but I've been around users more than once. In the UK it's not even legal for medical purposes, but people still use it. It's a class-B drug, meaning jail time for possession of more than a few grams.

People say it has no detrimental effects. I know that people can get incredibly paranoid whilst high on THC. I know that people can get lazy on THC. I know that people can ignore basic nutritional needs on THC.

This is not everyone. But not everyone has hair-loss and urinates blood on Anavar. True I've not seen those last two, but it would be brought up if I was extolling nothing but the legal ramifications of Anavar.

The arguments keep getting made that "X is as bad, or worse!" - well, X isn't illegal. There are not laws prohibiting the selling of prescription drug X, therefore it is pointless us discussing the legality of pot in relation to prescription drug X. We have no say in whether it should be legal or not - that has already been decided by government-approved bodies. However we do have a say whether marijuana should be legal, because that decision has been flaky for a long time. No political party will be elected just because they pledge to make Anavar illegal, but they will because they pledge to make pot legal.

I've never smoked pot (I've never smoked anything) and I rarely drink and then only at special occasions. I rarely feel stressed (I have a wife and four kids plus full-time job) and am fully capable of writing up a storm (unless it's a script...). I would get no benefit from pot, if "more creativity and less stress" are the only good things about it.

But the only negative feelings I have towards pot are the same I hold towards cigarettes. Pollute your own life as much as you want, as long as I don't have to smell it. In the air, on your clothes, as a result of you touching something...

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03-21-2013, 08:07 AM (This post was last modified: 03-21-2013 08:08 AM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #50
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
Is "X is worse than Y, and X is legal and Y is not" really an argument for legalizing Y, or criminalizing X?

It doesn't really accomplish anything but point out an inequality. And rightfully so. But to say that it is an automatic argument for legalizing Y is just bad use of logic.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-21-2013, 08:58 AM
Post: #51
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
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03-21-2013, 04:47 PM
Post: #52
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
(03-21-2013 08:07 AM)1KidsEntertainment Wrote:  Is "X is worse than Y, and X is legal and Y is not" really an argument for legalizing Y, or criminalizing X?

It doesn't really accomplish anything but point out an inequality. And rightfully so. But to say that it is an automatic argument for legalizing Y is just bad use of logic.

That's what my sleep-deprived brain was trying to say at 5am. All I was reading in this thread was "Well if pot is so bad, then why is alcohol legal?", which is a poor argument to legalise pot.

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03-21-2013, 10:30 PM (This post was last modified: 03-21-2013 10:30 PM by 1KidsEntertainment.)
Post: #53
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
Fair enough. I can't count the amount of times I've worded something poorly due to being up forever. I have problems communicating at the best of times.

Chances are, if you're reading this, it's after reading a ridiculously long post by me, something harshly phrased or confrontational, and/or me being stupid. I want to apologize for my above post, and end this signature with a quote of wisdom to soothe your soul.

"Ho ho..hoho hoho..santa for the wondering thismust be a joke in your series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
~A scholar beyond his time

[10:10:35 PM] Airrest (Eric): YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
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03-21-2013, 11:05 PM
Post: #54
RE: Last Dance with Mary Jane
God, Inna's me, wherever he's doing his laundry in the respect of everything he said in this thread. Thanks for putting it out there...those words.

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